ORTHODOX & PAPAL CATHOLIX:  
LATIN INNOVATIONS NOT
 FOUND IN ORTHODOXY

© 2000-2002 by Orchid Land Publications

[updated  20020206 (bis)]

           It is at times useful to have a list of topics for discussion, and that will be provided after this caveat about lists:  One must not let lists either overshadow the presuppositional frameworks that lists are often mere symptoms of--that is letting the tail wag the dog--or take the the place of a system--in which the items do not stand alone but are related in dependencies.   A difference in thought worlds (CLICK HERE FOR DISCUSSION AND FURTHER LINKS TO THAT DISCUSSION, SEE HERE), hold to the pre-Augustinian view that the mode of the Son's procession from the Father ("generation") is ontologically different from the mode of the Holy Spirit's procession (pneûsis/pnéfsis, or what in the West is called "spiration") from the Father.  If this difference cannot be analysed and defined by humans--who have got to resort to something like metaphor here because of the transcendent unknowability of Being beyond being, the divine Essence--it is nonetheless clear that the differentiation of the Son and the Holy Spirit does not require the Holy Spirit's proceeding from the Son as well as from the Father--something that (in the Orthodox view) infringes on the Father's being the sole Source of all that is.  And that makes it a terribly important issue for the Orthodox, even though it is impossible to "analyse" God.   The rôle of reason (lógos) in Orthodoxy theology no more makes it "rationalistic" than its pervasively mysteric outlook makes it anti-rational; the balance is exactly right.  Critics of Orthodoxy cannot have it both ways.

FUNDAMENTALS THAT SEEM TO HAVE ESCAPED 
THE NOTICE OF JUST ABOUT ALL COMMENTATORS

      We find talk about everything except the sine qua non of Latin or Papal Catholicism:  Its Mediæval juridical and other innovations stand or fall on the truth of its claim that all of its innovations have naturally developed out of seeds inherent in beliefs accepted in undivided Christianity.  Yet as soon as original/Orthodox Christianity, Latin, and Reformation Christianity are analysed in terms of their incompatible paradigms (sets of axioms or presuppositions about reality and religion; see the forthcoming OLP publication, Why the non-Orthodox cannot understand how Western Christianity diverges from Eastern Orthodoxy), papal claims fall to the ground and cannot be sustained.

   Because words mean different things in the original Greek-language, Latin, and Denominationist paradigms, we are more likely to be clear concerning what we disagree over that on what we agree over!!

     Latin never succeeded in satisfactorily translating a aspect of Greek that could well be thought to have provided a principal reason for why God ordained for the holy Gospel to be propagated in the Greek language:  Nouns derived form causative (energetic, usually transitive) verbs are usually paired thus:  feminines ending is -sis (older -tis is preserved after -s-, as in pistis "faith") express energizations (and are often used where English has a gerund) VERSUS neuters in -ma(t-, the same root behind mind, Latin ment-) which express an abstract idea (also expressed by the neuter article plus infinitive), though it often expresses the result of an energization.  Cf. (h)omoíosis "assimilation" :  (h)omoíoma "likeness."   In Gen. 1:26,Western Bibles mistranslate the former (energetic) term as though it were the latter (static) term.   Assuming that God wanted Christianity to be presented to the world in a cognitive framework in which basic reality is energy (or light, the first thing created), a view that would incidentally not stand in obvious conflict with science later on, he would obviously plan the Incarnation to take place at a time and place where it could be propagated in Greek but also stand in continuity with the Hebrew Bible.  He would presumably avoid Latin and in fact all Western languages with a more static view of reality (contrast Western "state of Grace" with Eastern Grace as uncreated Energy, Christ's Life).  The booklet referred to above lists ten apparent paradoxes that are resoluble only when energy is part of the analysis.

    Despite the differences between pre-Chalcedonians and the Orthodox, they share a similar thought world.  Note particularly that in Orthodoxy the biblical concept of Energy is vital (as the foregoing link clarifies), while in the West, there prevail a static (and indeed anti-time, anti-tradition), judicial outlook and judicial terminology--especially in connection with Salvation:   "sacrament [originally "oath"], covenant, atonement, satisfaction, redemption, justification, legal adoption," etc.  (This development went further in Protestantism, where, e.g. ordinance replaced sacrament.)  In the West, these (admittedly, biblical) terms are allowed to overwhelm the ontological facts so dear to the Orthodox.  The will-based framework of Western Denominationists is truly quite foreign to the being-based framework of the East, where will is subject to reason and was not treated in a very detailed manner till in the middle of the first millennium.  But note that the East cannot be characterized with the term  rationalism--something that is far from being characteristic of the "mystical" and ascetic East, which acknowledges the inability of reason to analyse divine Being beyond being.       

    A Latin General Council (1512-1517) proclaimed:  “We damn and reject all making the assertion that the rational soul is mortal . . .”  Thus is condemned the Orthodox belief that the soul is not immortal by nature (as Thomas's Aristotle said) but only by Grace.   Likewise, Aquinas taught (see ST I-II.87.1,3, and 8 in c., ad 3) that divine justice requires a punishment--a juridical viewpoint rejected in Orthodoxy, where it is believed that God does not have to punish in order to forgive.  Nor do we accept Thomas's view that death is a punishment (for sin); for the Orthodox, death is an result of the ontological privation of the Assimilation to God--the Fall of humanity--caused by our first ancestors' sinning.  As for the juridical character of Latin theology, it should not be forgotten that nearly every pope from 1100 to 1300 was a lawyer.

FOR THE MOST RECENT PAGES ON ECUMENICS, 
CLICK HERE AND HERE 

     An important thematic difference between East and West is the position of the Crucifixion of OLGS Jesus Christ vis-a-vis His triumphant victory over the devil, death, and decay that occurred with His glorious Resurrection:  Even in the plangent services of holy Great Week, the alleluïas resound; and of course the Vespers on holy Great Sabbath  in Orthodoxy, after the day's laments, we sing: 

"Let all mortal flesh keep silence and stand with fear and trembling . . . For the King of Kings and Lord of Lords draws near, to be sacrificed and given as food to the faithful.   Before Him go the choirs of Angels . . . , the many-eyed Cherubim and the six wingëd Seraphim. who cover their faces as they sing this hymn:  Alleluïa, alleuïa, alleuïa."  

But in the West, the Crucifixion is the paramount theme--at least in thought (though it didn't use to be celebrated by Denominationists, and is not a holiday in Denominationist-dominated lands).  It hardly needs to be said that the theme of the Crucifixion is anything but ignored in the East--where the sign of the cross is made with a great frequency, and where icons of the Crucifixion abound and are kissed and venerated and loved; but the Crucifixion is subordinate to its goal--the glorious Resurrection--with the Trinity the enduring theme of Orthodoxy.  Where the West thinks of our Savior's Crucifixion as rendering payment to God for our sins (and Denominationists add that Jesus was a Substitute for us), the holy tradition would rather look on the Crucifixion in the manner of the Book of Hebrews--i.e. as perfect Worship with a perfect Offering.  (If Sacrifice is returning to God part of the cosmos in token of His ownership of and lordship over all of it, then the perfect Offering is perfect Worship.)  Propitiation is also a notion associated with latreutic offerings; whereas the "satisfaction" of divine justice in Western thinking (also in the East but with less centrality) is wholly juridical. 
         With the caveats now offered and the overwhelming importance of the divergence of the Western (Latin and Denominationist) and Eastern religious thought worlds already referred to--as well as the admission that divine intervention can overcome any difficulty--below is found a listing (
CLICK HERE for the qualitative difference in value of a list and a system) of Orthodox-Latin differences, i.e. Latin innovations, classified according to very highly fallible human guesses over their resolubility (SEE ALSO HERE & HERE & HERE):

Insurmountable conflicts

Hard to resolve  Possibly resoluble
       The procession of the All-Holy Spirit (in the unilaterally revised Western Creed --SEE HERE)   
     Beatific Vision of the divine Essence as an intentional unity achieved through an intellectual vision of God 
   Reality not energetic; Grace not the uncreated Energies of Christ's Life for the Latins, whose Sanctifying Grace is a created habitus non-operativus of the soul 
   Failure to distinguish uncreated Energies of God from His from divine Essence
  
Inherited guilt    
  
Death as a penalty for sinnning
   Immortality of the soul by nature.
   Non-ontological, juridical-satisfaction 
soteriology*

   Universal papal juris- diction
   Papal infallibility  
   Supererogatory   
merits transferable by papal indulgences to living and dead Christians
   Consecration [in the Tridentine Rite]of the Eucharist other than by
invoking  the Holy Spirit 
  
  Analogia entis,
as currently conceptualized

   The Creator of the cosmos is a "Word"
   Baptism normally
without trine immersion
   "Indelible character" of "sacraments" (but "sacramentals" are not Mysteries)
   No divorce under any conditions (a marriage cannot die unless a spouse dies!)
   Monastic and lay vocations different in kind--not gradient, as St. Seraphim of Sarov said
   Eastern Uniates 

  The Immaculate
   Conception (the real problem is inherited sin)
   Transubstantiation
   Communion in one
kind [no longer a rule]
   Use of unleavened
bread at the m.h.
Eucharist
   Sabbath (Saturday)  fasting--other  than  the day before Great Pascha
   Allowing Pascha to precede the Jewish Passover
   Statues ("graven
images")  
   Assumption of the
all-holy Theotokos
   Celibacy of parish priests (with excep- tions for Uniates and converted clergy)
    Last rites:  Unction and Viaticum
     *Satisfaction (God doesn't forgive until divine justice is fully satisfied in a penal manner for infinite insults to His infinite Glory), atonement, justification in Latin sense, redemption in non-Orthodox sense, and virtualist ("intentional") unity with God's imparticipable Essence.
The Orthodox accept an ontological re-birth, adoption, membership in Christ, unity with God's uncreated Energies.

To these 25-30 differences, one must add the whole concept of validity in Latin theology (CLICK HERE AND ALSO HERE), not reconcilable with the outlook of the Orthodox as currently set forth, as well as arrangements that have  doctrinal significance--e.g. having the Altar in the midst of the congregation vs. having it behind an iconostasion.    (SEE ALSO HERE.)  For the Orthodox, Jesus is Christ, the LOGOS or Reason and Wisdom of God (YHWH), God the co-essential and co-equal Son.   It is unclear whether (depiste Luke 1:43) any Western Christians accept that Christ is YHWH (as in Exod. 1:20).  Latin concepts like created-supernatural Grace and seeing the Divine Essence (even if non autem quantum ad modum essendi) with created means make little sense to the Orthodox--who of course deny that the divine Essence can be seen in any fashion--since uncreated Essence  is Being beyond being and is unknowable and unseeable (even by a miracle--the way the uncreated Energies can be seen as uncreated Light) as well as imparticipable.   Both Orthodox and Latins acknowledge the difference between the Icon (Image of God) in human essence and the Assimilation to God that humanity had before the Fall.  The all-holy Theotokos is a Mediatrix with Christ, but not (as some Latins now propose to make de fidean article of faith) a Redemptress.  In short, the whole non-energetic Latin paradigm (invented well over a dozen centuries after the Apostolic Age and derived from Islamic Cordova) is so different from the energetic Apostolic paradigm is a different forest--so different that the trees cannot be comparable.

CORRECT & INCORRECT VIEWS OF WHAT DIVIDES US

     Honesty is the best policy.  Ambiguous statements that Orthodox and Latins can interpret differently have heretofore proved self-defeating to the extent that there is today less confusion over our differences than over our supposed agreements.  Those  who would fudge over differences are doing the cause of unity no service.

   Underlying the foregoing differences between the Orthodox and papal Christians is an even more basic and irresoluble difference causing many of the above.  It is a difference in the frameworks of basic assumptions--paradigms  that are simply incompatible.  Consider inherited guilt:  Even though current Latins say that no guilt is inherited--only an absence of sanctifying Greece.  This is something that the Orthodox could verbally agree on with the Latins; but what each side means would be different, because saving Grace is Energy for the Orthodox and not for the Latins.  What good would such an agreement accomplish?  Without the Orthodox concept of energy, none of the differences in theology can be satisfactorily reconciled (SEE HERE).  Without the acceptance of this Greek-Bible view of reality, there cannot be a sustainable agreement about Grace and unity with the divine Nature.

CONTRAST THE FOREGOING WITH THE FOLLOWING VIEW, 
taken
from Pope Leo XIII's encyclical, Præclara gratulationis publicæ, six years before the end of the nineteenth century--
and notice
what is left out (this is not my translation!)

        First of all, then, We cast an affectionate look upon the East, from whence in the beginning came forth the salvation of the world.  Yes, and the yearning desire of Our heart bids us conceive and hope that the day is not far distant when the Eastern Churches, so illustrious in their ancient faith and glorious past, will return to the fold they have abandoned. We hope it all the more, that the distance separating them from Us is not so great: nay, with some few exception, we agree so entirely on other heads that, in defence of the Catholic faith, we often have recourse to reasons and testimony borrowed from the teaching, the rites, and customs of the East.

[We come to the first myth]

     The principle subject of contention is the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.  . . .  Before the day when man separated what God had joined together, . . .  the East, like the West, agreed without hesitation in its obedience to the Pontiff of Rome, as the legitimate successor of St. Peter, and, therefore, the Vicar of Christ here on earth.

[The allusion to St. Photios represents a concession that the Western heresy of Filioquism is an unsurmounted barrier]

    And accordingly, if we refer to the beginning of the dissension, we shall see that Photios himself was careful to send his advocates to Rome on the matters that concerned him; and Pope Nicholas I. sent his legates to Constantinople from the Eternal City, without the slightest opposition, "in order to examine the case of Ignatius the Patriarch with all diligence, and to bring back to the Apostolic See a full and accurate report"; so that the history of the whole negotiation is a manifest confirmation of the primacy of the Roman See with which the distention then began. 

[Unmentioned is the fact that, as soon as the delegates returned home from these and all similar synods--conducted with the assumptions of a non-Orthodox paradigm--the agreements were repudiated after having been examined in the original Greek-language paradigm of early and Orthodox Christianity.  In what follows below, the word "easily" is a falsification of what happened at Lyons and Ferrara-Florence.]       

      For Lyons (1274), see the short article by C. N. Constantinides, "Byzantine scholars and the Union of Lyons" in The making of Byzantine history:  Studies dedicated to Donald M.Nicol, edd. R. Beaton & Charlotte Roueché  (Variorum, 1993). 
     For a reliable account of the negotiations in Italy that brought the long-evident division between Eastern and Western Christianity to a head, see I. N. Ostroumoff, The History of the Council of Florence, trans. Basil Popoff  (pb., Holy Transfiguration Monastery, 1971).

Finally, in two great Councils, the second of Lyons and that of Ferrara-Florence, Latins and Greeks, as is notorious, easily agreed, and all unanimously proclaimed as dogma the supreme power of the Roman Pontiffs.

[The following offers no hint of how irreconcilable paradigms can be reconciled; and no suggestions of how, within those paradigms, contradictory beliefs--those of early Greek-language Christianity and the many papal innovations over the years--could be reconciled . . . other than by adopting papalism in toto, as now becomes clear]

    . . .  We advise the reconciliation and union with the Church of Rome; and We mean a perfect and complete union, such as could not subsist in any way if nothing else was brought about but a certain kind of agreement in the tenets of belief and an intercourse of fraternal love. The true union between Christians is that which Jesus Christ, the Author of the Church, instituted and desired, and which consists in a unity of faith and a unity of government.

[There follow honey-coated words to conceal the all-too-obvious fact that the pope will have authority over our patriarchs that at present he does not have, not to speak of the power to tell us what is dogma necessary for Salvation--and very novel ones at that, from the Orthodox point of view]

    Nor is there any reason for you to fear on that account that We or any of Our successors will ever diminish your rights, the privileges of your patriarchs, or the established ritual of any one of your churches.  . . .  if you re-establish union with Us, you will see how, by God's bounty, the glory and dignity of your churches will be remarkably increased.  

[Note "return" in the following and then say "Aaarrrggghhh!!!  Note the pretence that what has been handed down to both parties is linked as though it were the same on both sides]
     
     May you thus return to that one holy Faith which has been handed down both to Us and to you from time immemorial . . . 

[And if not all Eastern patriarchates can be lured, try to get some--indeed the largest segment; note how the word "separated" is slipped in, and note the irony of "many"--the faithful non-Uniates; nor overlooked the bribes]

    Suffer that We should address you more particularly, nations of the Slavonic race,
. . . If in unhappy time many of your forefathers were separated from the Faith of Rome, consider now what priceless benefits a return of unity would bring to you. The Church may give you manifold aids to salvation, prosperity, and grandeur.
    

[In the following words addressed to the Denominationists, his assessment of what they have devolved into may not be far off]

     . . .  If they will but compare that Church with their own communions, and consider what the actual state of religion is in these, they will easily acknowledge that, forgetful of their early history, they have drifted away, on many and important points, into the novelty of various errors; nor will they deny that of what may be called the patrimony of truth, which the authors of those innovations carried away with them in their desertion, there now scarcely remains to them any article of belief that is really certain and supported by authority.
    Nay, more, things have already come to such a pass that many do not even hesitate to root up the very foundation upon which alone rests all religion, and the hope of men, to wit, the divine nature of Jesus Christ, our Saviour. And again, whereas formerly they used to assert that the books of the Old and the New Testament were written under the inspiration of God, they now deny them that authority: this, indeed, was an inevitable consequence when they granted to all the right of private interpretation. Hence, too, the acceptance of individual conscience as the sole guide and rule of conduct to the exclusion of any other: hence those conflicting opinions and numerous sects that fall away so often into the doctrines of Naturalism and Rationalism.
    Therefore it is, that having lost all hope of an agreement in their persuasions, they now proclaim and recommend a union of brotherly love. And rightly, too, no doubt, for we should all be united by the bond of mutual charity. Our Lord Jesus Christ enjoined it most emphatically, and wished that this love of one another should be the mark of His disciples.  

[Now we come to the heart of the matter; too bad, the same sentiment was not reflected in the pope's view of relations with the Orthodox]

But how can hearts be united in perfect charity where minds do not agree in faith?

[So back to the basic pitch that the Body of Christ is the papal "obedience"--the usual juridical terminology is side-stepped here]

    It is on this account that many of those We allude to men of sound judgment and seeking after truth, have looked to the Catholic Church for the sure way of salvation; for they clearly understand that they could never be united to Jesus Christ as their head if they were not members of His body, which is the Church; nor really acquire the true Christian faith if they rejected the legitimate teaching confided to Peter and his successors. . . .

[The novelty of the official scholastic paradigm and its derivation from Cordovan Arabic Aristotelianism are now to be passed over in silence]

and not a few . . .  have shown forth . . .  the uninterrupted succession of the Church of Rome from the apostles, the integrity of her doctrine, and the consistency of her rule and discipline.
    . . .  Suffer that We should invite you to the unity which has ever existed in the Catholic Church and can never fail; suffer that We should lovingly hold out Our hand to you. The Church, as the common mother of 

all, [!!!!!]

has long been calling you back to her; . . .

[It's all and always "her"!]   

      The Orthodox teach that the divine Being in the form of His uncreated Energies, not His Essence or Being-beyond-being, is participable.   (In a framework lacking energy--despite Fr. Lonergan's views about Aquinas himself, Grace is static rather than energetic in the West:  either the Latins' official "created (but "supernatural") habit, quality, or form of the soul" (or created but supernatural habitus entitativus) or else the Reformers' state of "being in divine favor and imputed Grace."  Both of the Western teachings are states; neither  is satisfactory in this day and age.  But basic axioms or presuppositions about reality are hard to confront and dispute.  (CLICK HERE FOR MORE ON ENERGY.)  On inherited guilt in the left-most list above, note that the immaculate conception of the m. h. Theotokos (who is more familiarly called Panayía by Greeks) is vacuous if original guilt is abandoned; or rather, if no one is born with an ancestor's guilt, only the moment of receiving special Graces she received is in dispute.  Her "Repose" or "Dormition" in Orthodoxy differs from the Latin "Assumption":  The Orthodox believe that the body of the Theotokos  was metathesized or translated (carried off) to Heaven after her repose; more than this is permitted but not required belief--and is certainly not a dogma of the Faith.   A canticle in the First Canon of the night service for the Falling Asleep of our all-holy Lady says:  ". . . like Your Son and Creator, you have submitted to the laws of nature in a manner above nature; therefore, dying, you have risen to live eternally with your Son."  

    There is no point in discussing the Latins’ doctrine of the immaculate conception of the Theotoqkos when it depends on original guilt; the latter is what ought to be discussed.
    There is no point in discussing the Latin’s doctrine of the assumption of the Theotoqkos when it depends on the penal view of death; the latter is what ought to be discussed.

     As for the papacy, the Orthodox find 100% unacceptable the papal claim that his authority is ex sese, non ex ecclesia "for his own self, not from the Church."  For the Orthodox, the whole Church--laity and clergy--is the source of ultimate authority and authenticity.

     It puts the cart before the horse to be exhorted to love those we disagree with in order that we may agree.  This implies that loving others and agreeing go together.  What should be taught is to love even those we disagree with, since loving those in agreement with us does not need to be urged.  Loving and agreeing are on different dimensions--emotional and cognitive--that do not cross except when we love error or hate truth.   So let us discuss the basis of our agreements openly, honestly, and in an objective and friendly manner and not pretend that we love only because of the hope of future agreement on things that allow of no middle ground!

    The foregoing lists do not take into account great and partly irreconcilable differences in piety--or theolog(o)umena like the difference over Angels:   Where the East ascribes preternatural bodies (like the resurrected bodies of humans) to Angels, the Latin scholastics come down on angelic incorporeity.   Aside from differences in how "non-graven" icons are revered in East and West, there are, on one side, rosaries, devotions to the Blessed Sacrament, novenas, way of the Cross (carried out only in Jerusalem by the Orthodox), etc.; and on the other side, paraclesis services, trisagions, mol(i)ebens, akathists, four "lents," and various differences in services commemorating those fallen asleep in Christ.  Such differences are powerfully important for the average parishioner--just as differences in liturgical languages are for some Orthodox--who in theory prefer the language of the place.  Aside from the mitigation of fasting in the Latin Church (Sabbath fasting, except on holy Great Sabbath, was prohibited by Ecumenical Synods), the foregoing nineteen or twenty points exhibit divergencies of differing importance:  Seven  belong to differing thought worlds. 

THE AWFUL ACHILLES HEEL IN THE IDEA
OF DEVELOPMENT EXPOUNDED
BY LATIN APOLOGISTS

     There are three views of development--one of which is legitimate:

--developments of teachings within an original categorial  frame- work which are   consistent with past teachings
AND categories.  [Orthodox]
--developments of categories as well as teachings.  [Latin apologists]
--no development (Gnostic timelessness, antitraditionalist) [Denominationists]

Latin apologetes contend that it is legitimate to replace the categories of the Greek-speaking framework of early Christianity with the novel categories of fourteenth-century Western thinking.   This is totally unjustified.  They don't disagree with us over consistent workings out of truths within a framework; but they make the illicit jump of being free to depart from the ancient categories (energy, etc.) in favor of the static categories of late-Mediæval Western thinking.  They of course provide no overt justification for this illicit manoeuvre.   Orthodox people should not be taken in by this--under the guise of disagreeing over "development" per se--or even the charge (which has been leveled against me) of "not believing in development."  We cannot accept development away from and inconsistent with the original categories of Greek-using Biblical authors and of Christians everywhere in the early centuries--and still in the East to this day.  Intellectual honesty demands a better approach for the obvious reason that anything (including Protestantism) can be justified if one is allowed to call adopting novel categories "development"!

SEE THIS PAGE TOO!

1. The whole case for papal catholicism is that its unilateral innovations are natural developments inherent in and implied by beliefs and practices of the undivided ancient Church (developed under the guidance of the Holy Spirit).
 
2. This case is totally untenable when it is realized that:
    a. Rome lost all continuity with the original Greek-language Christianity of the East during the enormous hiatus of 700-750 years of Teutonic-Latin Dark Ages.  (There were two or three minor exceptions, which are discussed elsewhere.  Look at the paucity of Eastern references in, e.g., Lombard's Sententiae.)  When learning came into the West, it came from Islamic Cordova, not from Eastern Christianity but from Islamic Aristotelians. (Doesn't Thomas refer to Muslim and Jewish Cordovans and their predecessors in Syria, Iraq, and Persia--Avicenna, Averroës, Ben Maimon, Avicebron--as authoritative?
    b. There is no continuity between paradigms, as scholars recognize.  This is exponentially true when the paradigms--Christian and Mediaeval--were invented a dozen centuries apart.
 
If 2 is the major premise, and 1 is the minor premise, it follows that 3 is the unavoidable conclusion:
 
3. There is no justification for the twenty-odd unilateral Latin innovations into the pure Apostolic Faith as it unfolded in Eastern Orthodoxy.

Though Latins charge the Orthodox with vagueness in not listing the exact number of Mysteries (Sacraments) or even an agreed on list of the Minor Orders and different uses of "energy," they themselves cannot agree on the important subject of how many times the papacy has declared something de fide (required belief)  in an ex cathedra manner; they always leave room for hedging later on, in case some papal statement can no longer be accepted--in which case it obviously wasn't ex cathedra!
   
Not only is it logical to discuss our presuppositions about reality before discussing views that depend on them--since an idea or whatever will often mean different things in different frameworks; apples may get confused with oranges and lead nowhere--; it is also less personal than arguing over particulars that may be but symptoms of our presuppositions--it is perhaps harder to get exercised in heated exchanges over our presuppositions than with particulars.  This is because there is an unavoidable degree of arbitrariness and non-thought-out-ness about our frameworks; whether we have grown up with them or not, they have generally been adopted unconsciously by an individual and hence have never been examined--precisely because they are taken for granted.   Even when we examine our presuppositional frameworks, they are more or less unarguable. 
         C
LICK HERE for some of the effects on lists of details exerted by orientations, presuppositional frameworks, belief systems, or whatever term one may prefer.  These determine what is primary in many respects and what is secondary--and how we define Grace and Salvation--and what we focus most on-- being (ontology), the Resurrection, and Worship addressed to God (the Altar) as being even more central than will, the Crucifixion, and sermons addressed to humans (the pulpit), respectively--or the mirror-image of this.   It is not that any of these is unimportant, but rather that their importance arises out of their proper ordering and priority, right relations of means and ends, and so on, in an ordered and viable system of reality that does no violence, e.g. to either reason (as does imputation based on whim) or to will (as does the doctrine of inherited guilt, at least as viewed from the human rather than the divine side).  We are corporeal and spiritual creatures--one side is more important, but it requires the lesser side as a vehicle to channel its higher being:  God and man in Christ, soul and body in human beings, spiritual Grace and matter in Mysteries and sacramentals.    Extremes attempting to be logical by erasing one of two ends of each pole are devastating in the long run, even when they don't produce fanatics.   And without the concept of energy, how can Western theology overcome the opposition of Grace and works or explain what was lost at the Fall without destroying the Icon (Image) of God--reason and freewill--two things needed for a person to be responsible for what one does?
     Unless the nitty-gritty issues concerning presuppositional frameworks are on the table, discussion of all of the other things that one can, and does, talk about are beside the point--or at most (as is claimed) such discussion can function to get hierarchs (Latin:   prelates) acquainted with one another sufficiently to make an  the real issues attackable.   A discussion of symptomatic details without a discussion of the divergent thought worlds that give birth to such details will prove fruitless.   A final comment is that the Denominationist thought world is too foreign (
CLICK HERE FOR SOME DETAILS) to even consider--again, humanly speaking--because of its being irreconcilable with Orthodoxy.  (Both kinds of antitraditionalists on the religious left--Fundamentalists and Liberals--share the same will-based, anti-ontological thought world.)  And it will be difficult enough for the Orthodox and the pre-Chalcedonians to get together--since views about God count for both!

Readers should look at this short booklet by Fr. C. Cavarnos: 
The question of union.   
CLICK HERE TO ORDER.

CLICK HERE AND HERE  FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

FOR THE FALL & SALVATION IN THE THEOLOGY OF
THE ORTHODOX, THE LATINS, & THE REFORMERS

CLICK HERE FOR THE ALL-HOLY THEOTOKOS IN ORTHODOXY

JOE'S ESSAYS; on divorce SEE HERE

 


    

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